Have anyone read the writings on homosexuality by Elizabeth Moberly? I would love to get your comments. She and other of her collegues suggest that that homosexuality is ultimately about rejection of and detachment from self, from others, and one's own gender identity.
There is a large part of me that agrees with her. I have noticed over the years that as I am learning to love myself, learning how to be true friend, learning to be guilt free when desiring male friends and male bonding, and developing friendships and having male bonding experiences that same sex attraction is not as strong, and I don't desire sexual experiences with another man.
Moberly and her collegues suggestion the following:
There is no such thing as true homosexuality. Anyone who experiences same-sex attractions is latently heterosexual and merely stuck in an early stage of psychosexual development. When the causes are revealed and healed, gender identity will be experienced and heterosexual desires will ensue.
Homosexual feelings, thoughts and desires are symptoms of underlying issues. They represent a defensive response to conflicts in the present, a way to medicate pain and discomfort. They represent unresolved childhood trauma, archaic emotions, frozen feelings, wounds that never healed. They also represent a reparative drive to fulfill unmet homo-emotional love needs of the past --
Homosexuality represents an attachment strain, defensive detachment or defensive exclusion from the same-sex parent, same-sex peers, one's own body, and one's own sense of gender identity.
Homosexuality is an attachment disorder, whereby the individual feels separated from parents, self, body and others. "I don't fit in," "I don't belong," "I'm different from the rest," "I'm neither a boy nor girl," are some of the thoughts of those who experience same-sex attractions. The result is a gender identity deficit disorder.
Some events or elements that can lead to feeling homosexual can include:
Temperament
Some of the temperamental characteristics that may lead to a Gender Identity Deficit Disorder are hypersensitivity, a more artistic nature, a more masculine female, a more feminine male, and a "high maintenance" child.
Homo-emotional Wounds
In the father-son, mother-daughter relationship, the child perceives or experiences their same-sex parent as either cold, distant, absent, passive, abusive or excessively involved in his or her life. This homo-emotional wound is a key factor in the development of what may later appear as same-sex attractions.
Body Image Wounds
Late bloomer, early maturation, physical disabilities, shorter, taller, skinner, or fatter -- these are some characteristics that may result in body image wounds.
Social or Peer Wounds
Some experiences and characteristics individuals with same-sex attractions have lived through include: name calling, put downs, goody-goody, teacher's pet, non athletic, lack of rough and tumble for boys, and too much rough and tumble for girls.
Cultural Wounds
Cultural wounds are experienced from the media, educational system, entertainment industry, internet, and pornography. These influences lead to the molestation of the mind.
There are other elements, but as I have stated in past blogs, some of my own previous experiences or jealoousies relate to some of the elements described above. For me, as I work continue to become a "whole" person, the same sex attraction becomes less and less a predominant charateristic in my life.
I don't know if I can totally agree with her (admitting that I haven't read her writings - just what you summarized here).
ReplyDeleteI can remember my attractions towards other men starting from when I was a very young boy. I think I was a pretty happy, well-adjusted kid.
I also wonder, if I was a latent heterosexual, wouldn't a decade of happy heterosexual marriage have brought about at least some small bit of physical attraction towards women (or the on particular woman in my life)?
I start to question when people use the gender identity terminology. I don't really see myself as having gender identity issues. I'm masculine. I don't like feminine stuff. I'm ridiculously useful when my wife tries to get my opinion on stuff like paint colors and decorating questions. I have no desire to look feminine or talk feminine - I'd prefer to look even more masculine.
I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative. Just sharing my thoughts and very interested in everyone else's.
When I first read Moberly 20 years ago, I was similarly impressed that at last here was an answer that made sense. As a result I immersed myself in reparative therapy and a sports program, becoming obsessed with reducing my "deficits", to decrease my "defensive detachment", accept my attraction to men as a "reparative drive" and use it to build non-sexual relationships with my peers.
ReplyDeleteDid it work? Yes and no, but ultimately no.
Yes, I became much more comfortable in the world of men. I accepted my same-sex attraction more than I ever had previously and I became somewhat comfortable talking about and playing softball, basketball and tossing a football around. This increased sports literacy was particularly helpful to me as a young father rearing sons and daughters in a sports saturated society.
No, it did not change my sexual orientation. I identified as bisexual before and that is still how I see myself two decades later. It did change my behavior somewhat. I became more outgoing. This enabled me to become friends with men I found attractive but intimidating, but it did not remove the attraction.
Upon many years of reflection, the problem I have with Mo
berly, Nicolosi and others of the reparative therapy ilk, is that they fail to take into account the many gay people who don't have issues with childhood bonding to the parent of the same sex, or peer acceptance issues, etc. If you're gay but have an fine relationship with your father and your brothers, then where does that leave Moberly?
Then there's the problem of heterosexuals who did have signficant issues with detachment from their fathers but it had no impact whatsoever upon their sexual desires. These men do have same-sex parenting deficits but they're 100% heterosexual. How does Moberly explain that?
In conclusion, reparative therapy helped me accept my same-sex attraction as something healthy, but it didn't "fix" me. Perhaps that's because there's nothing to fix. Whether genetic or the result of horomones in the womb or some combination thereof, or something else entirely, I believe that my homosexuality is not just a given but a gift. It doesn't need fixing anymore than I need to change the color of my eyes or learn to write with my left hand.
Here's an article by a straight guy who went undercover to a "reparative" Journey into Manhood weekend. It concerns many of these issues and those who are exploiting them. Take a look and let me know what you think:
http://nocureforthat.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/what-happened-when-i-went-undercover-at-a-christian-gay-to-straight-conversion-camp/
Here's an article that also addresses some of the problems with reparative therapy:
http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=183
Doesn't this sound like a horoscope or personality test? These descriptions apply to almost everyone.
ReplyDelete"Late bloomer, early maturation, physical disabilities, shorter, taller, skinner, or fatter"
"In the father-son, mother-daughter relationship, the child perceives or experiences their same-sex parent as either cold, distant, absent, passive, abusive or excessively involved in his or her life."
It seems that none of these are necessary or sufficient to produce the results these authors claim.
My thought was similar to that of Anonymous. These descriptions are vague enough that nearly any gay person could read them, come up with some experience or characteristic that matches, and say "ooh, that's me!"
ReplyDeleteAnd as Ned said, plenty of people have similar experiences or characteristics and remain straight. Wouldn't that imply that--even if these experiences do contribute to a person's attraction to the same gender--there's still some inherent trait that predisposes one person to be so-influenced while another remains unaffected?
Decades of experimentation in reparative therapy (as well as my own twenty or so years in following similar [self-discovered] practices) have not shown any conclusive success in changing a gay person's orientation--in making him straight.
In fact, I wonder about your own experience:
I have noticed over the years that as I am learning to love myself, ... that same sex attraction is not as strong, and I don't desire sexual experiences with another man.
...
... as I work continue to become a "whole" person, the same sex attraction becomes less and less a predominant charateristic in my life.
... but can you say that you've experienced any significant increase in opposite-sex attraction?
My own experience has not been too dissimilar to yours--when I was in denial, and trying hard to suppress my feelings, desire for "sexual experiences with another man" was often strong to the point of being almost overwhelming.
When I accepted that I'm gay, and that that's okay, those desires became considerably less an issue. But I still like men. I just don't see them as sex objects anymore. I see them as people who I can fall in love with and form close emotional relationships with.
And my feelings for women? Same as they've ever been, as in, I'm not physically attracted and those emotional connections aren't there--but they make excellent friends.
Even some of the biggest bigwigs in reparative therapy are now publicly admitting that the best that can be hoped for in almost every case is an improved ability to manage the attractions, but that they never go away, and that they certainly never change.
That's been my experience and observation as well, and accepting that has brought me more peace and happiness than I would have thought possible back when I was so deeply in denial.
One thing I've been wondering and have been wanting to do a post on, but haven't, is this: I've noticed that as I've drastically improved my relationships with others, particularly men, I've felt myself become more whole and comfortable with myself. I've even noticed some of the attraction fade. It hasn't reversed, I'm still definitely attracted to men and not women, but it's not an overpowering thing. I think before, I was very hyper-sexualized. I viewed men almost exclusively as sexual objects. I think as I've become more emotionally healthy and established deeper bonds with other men and myself, I've just brought myself into a more "normal" realm of sexual feelings. I can see how some would experience that and come to the conclusion that they were being "healed" or whatever. But even though the feelings don't have the compulsive edge that they once did, I'm still very much attracted to men over women.
ReplyDeleteNot a single one of these alleged causes of homosexuality applies in my case. Not only that, ironically, after I came out, my previously tepid interest in things traditionally considered more "macho"--like rough sports and martial arts--exploded. I became braver, more of a risk-taker. And my interest in men grew stronger as well, in all respects. In fact, I have been jokingly accused by gay friends of being a "closet straight guy." But nope, not so. Gayer than ever, and far happier too.
ReplyDeleteWhen she can prove everything she says, then I may listen. In the meantime, if ANYONE knew the answer why people are gay, they would be a multi-millionaire. I think the only person who really knows why people are gay is God. I will wait to hear His word on it.
ReplyDeleteHappy day. :)
I also agree with most of the comments. I do believe that some of the experiences growing up can intensify or reduce homosexual feelings and identity, but ultimately we are all prepackaged with certain traits, interests, desires, personality, etc. Anyone who's a parent would probably agree that watching a child grow is so interesting as you try to guide them but the kids are wired a certain way when they are born.
ReplyDeletePutting it another way, I had a seminary teacher once ask the class what their favorite ice cream flavors were. He would then ask why? It's hard to really say why. We just love certain things. I think that's a simple example of demonstrating that our desires and interest can be innate.
I know from a young age that I was interested in men and did feel somewhat like I didn't fit in with the male crowd. Some of Moberly's characteristics certainly rang true for my experience, but did not define who I am, merely influenced existing desires.
Thanks for your thoughts, because I do agree that at times focusing on being a well-rounded person and not being overly concerned about my attractions to other guys helps.
Great website. Keep up the great work.
ReplyDeleteForgive the Chapter 2 comment but I have been thinking about this a lot and realized there's another flaw with Moberly's work which some other commenters have alluded to.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, she confuse characteristics with causes. Others have pointed out that her lists of items that contribute to this alleged "disorder" are so broad as to encompass virtually everyone. And that is true.
Beyond that, her logic is flawed and backward. It's as if she said "300 Spartans fought at Thermopylae, therefore it was being Spartan that caused those 300 to fight there." But there is no logical analysis or evidence to show how this alleged cause creates this alleged effect. On examination, there were all kinds of other reasons why those 300 happened to be at Thermopylae, and the same would be true for any of Ms. Moberley's examples.
Her logic is so flawed that I suspected it must be driven by a political or religious agenda, not a truly faithful adherence to objective or scientific analysis. After I reached this conclusion I did some homework and found that indeed she is a Christian advocate of "reparative" therapy," which is rejected as ineffective and potentially harmful by every reputable professional association which has ever considered the question.
Ultimately, it's just as plausible that everything on your list of Ms. Moberley's posited "causes" could be a result or a reflection of being gay, not a cause. Moberley would not be the first to put so many carts before so many horses in an effort to make unwilling facts fit a religious agenda.
I really like Moberly's writing. I have found that most of it rings true with my experience. One thing I think is important to understand is that she's not claiming that the circumstances define the man. She talks a lot about our experiences, but far more important are the feelings we experience and the judgments we make about those experiences.
ReplyDeleteWhen I hear some one claim that they had no problems in their parental or peer relationships, that raises a big red flag that their not telling the truth. I suppose that if their repression mechanism is working on overdrive, they may not remember rough spots in relationships. But I've never met anyone--straight, gay, or heliotrope--who didn't have relationship stress.
Ultimately, I can't speak for everyone. Each of us have different experiences, and more importantly different internal reactions to experiences. However, I can speak for myself. I know that when I meet my needs for non-sexual, non-romantic same-gender intimacy, my same-sex attractions all but disappear, and in their place comes a deep, natural attraction to my wife. The opposite is also true. When I am neglecting my need for emotional connection to my brothers, or if I have unresolved emotional issues blocking me from feeling that connection, my SSA starts to increase and my attraction to my wife decreases.
I know that this pattern is true in my life. Many dear friends also relate similar experiences. This has happened time and time again in my life.