I was talking with a co-worker this past week, and we got on the topic of homosexuality and the gay lifestyle. My co-worker mentioned that he has a friend who is gay, and has left the church to pursue a relationship with another man. My co-worker is a little frustrated with his friend and the decision he has made. He made some interesting comments and I wanted to share them with you, and get your feeback and comments.
He said, "why do some people with same sex attraction or tendencies have to act on them. Just because sexual activities with members of the same sex would feel good to some people does not make it right." He continued, "I am a straight man and I'm only sexually attracted to women, but I can say that if I was with a good male friend, and he started to fondle genitals, it would probably feel pleasurable. But, again it doesn't make it right. The Lord has asked us to only have sexual experiences with our spouses. I could enjoy sexual experiences with other women besides my wife, but I am commanded to discipline and control my sexual desires."
He further stated, "I don't see why some men and women with SSA in the church, don't look for a spouse to share their life together, to look for companionship, and try to have sexual relationship and have children. Even if some members have tendencies toward the same sex, can't they still enjoy sexual pleasure to a degree with their spouse?" Continuing in the words of my co-worker, "Like I said I'm not attracted to men, but it can still feel good to receive physical affection from another male. If SSA members are trying to keep the Lord's commandments, I believe the Lord can help them to acomplish the Lord's goals to marry and to possibly have children, not that it will be easy, but it is possible." He then referred to Nephi obtaining the brass plates.
"Nephi was commanded to return from the wilderness to obtain the plates of brass from Laban. That was the Lord's commandment, but the commandment was not easily accomplished. Laban did not easily hand over the plates. It took three attempts, with much difficulty before Nephi was able to obtain the plates. In the process:
(1) Nephi and his brothers had to flee from Laban and his and his severants who sought their lives.
(2) Nephi's family lost all of their their possessions.
(3) Nephi was beaten by his brothers with rod, and
(4) Nephi had to kill Laban.
In the end Nephi was able to keep the commandment of the Lord and obtain the plates, and the Lord did deliever Laban into his hands, but Nephi had to go through a lot to keep the Lord's commandment."
My co-workers point is SSA members of the church can keep the Lords commandments, and he recognizes it is a difficult road to walk, but he and I both beleive the journey is worth it, and the Lord will help us! Any Comments?
The persistence of this myth is astonishing. Here's my response:
ReplyDeletehttp://scrumcentral.blogspot.com/2010/02/its-about-love.html
I think this is that difficult place where we have to acknowledge that each human has a different brain, different biology, and many other different variables that make he or she who they are. I also just blogged a couple of posts back on how I experience my sexuality as a choice. I have to say reading what your supposedly straight friend had to say makes me wonder if he is really just a little "something more than straight" if he can actually see himself having pleasurable intimacy with another man. This doesn't make him gay, it just makes him attracted to both sexes, perhaps predominantly to women, but nevertheless to both sexes.
ReplyDeleteYes, I know, there bi first then ultimately gay.
The other thing that I've actually worried a bit about is this idea that a person would be drawn to one sex or another. I haven't experienced that as I've read it described in the Moho blogosphere. It's made me wonder if I'm somehow broken and not a complete person, because that deep desire to be with one gender or another isn't there for me. Or is that I just like all people and therefore emotional interaction and commitment is just as good with one sex as another?
Finally, is it possible that some of us are just such pragmatic, results oriented souls that romantic notions just don't influence how we experience sexuality or that constraints imposed on us by society, religious or other motivations just don't bother us?
Your straight friend is making a common mis-assumption - that being gay is all about sex while being straight is all about relationships. Two things to consider
ReplyDelete1) Would you want your daughter to marry a gay boy?
As a gay man who is married (and faithful) to a straight woman, I can honestly say that I wouldn't wouldn't want my daughter to marry a man who deals with same sex attraction. Some argue that all marriages have problems to overcome - which is true. However, a mixed orientation marriage still has all of those other problems PLUS having a spouse who is not sexually attracted to you (or being married to someone to whom you are not sexually attracted).
2) The alternative to getting married is to live a life of loneliness and solitude - while sitting in church every sunday listening to how wonderful marriage is - it's like rubbing salt in the wound.
I often find myself wondering how many straight members who are quick to judge and condemn gay relationships would be willing and able to live a life of loneliness and solitude until they grow old and die. I dare say not many. In fact, most likely about the same percentage of straight members would be willing and able as we see in gay members. Simply being straight does not make one inherently stronger and able to withstand temptation. To condemn someone for not living a life that you yourself are probably not able to live is hypocrisy - and we all know how Jesus felt about hypocrites.
Abelard said it perfectly!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I gotta echo some of the comments that have already been made.
ReplyDeleteIt is not all about sex!
I'm a gay man married to a woman. I made the choice and I will remain married. But, I understand those gay Mormon men who do not make that choice and I understand that it is not about sex. It is about a desire for true love and companionship.
Your friends analogy contains such a common mistake made in the LDS church. The mistake is in thinking that gays can just ignore that part of them and pursue the traditional heterosexual life. But, ignoring or denying one's homosexual tendencies does not make one heterosexual.
And the obscene focus on whether or not one can be made to feel pleasure in his/her genitals is, in my opinion, an insult to God's plan for us.
Rob, Abelard, and Jeff are all spot on in their comments. It's not about the sex. I can't ever say that enough. If it was just about sex, I could easily do without that, heaven knows I have survived just fine so far. What it really is about is being able to form deeply intimate relationships of trust, mutual support, and love.
ReplyDeleteYour friend's stance on sex also seems to be somewhat perplexing to me. I would not find it stimulating if a close friend were to fondle my unit. I would find that extremely uncomfortable, awkward, yuck, etc. etc. from anyone who I was not in a committed long term relationship with. Many of us have tried for a very long time to make things with the opposite sex work, and can attest that not only has it gone nowhere, but in many cases has been downright miserable. It's great if it works for you, but please don't try and force the rest of us into something that we personally find harmful to our souls (not to mention those of our potential partners).
And finally, it's worth mentioning that some of us feel that Heavenly Father wants us to find a partner of the same sex to marry and start a family with. I really wish that more people could subscribe to something like what JGW mentioned in his post entitled, "Interviews with Christ."
For what its worth I agree with your friend. Its the path I'm pursuing.
ReplyDeleteyah man! thanks for being out there! I do searches sometimes in desparate ways to try and find something that I can identify as what I should be doing as an active lds male, and sometimes feel alone and having same sex atttractions. I think a big part of my trouble is thinking that I'm alone, so I think your blog is a miracle that someone puts a voice to something so true!
ReplyDeleteI wish there were more opportunities to feel like you could identify with other males. I think the females in the lds religion hold so much power over their partners, that sometimes you don't get to share how much it would mean to have other male friends.
I'm all for keeping the faith. The females have a close knit society. I think they have a part of their lives that we don't know about, how they ultimately trust other women with their feelings, but there is also alot of differences that we don't share between others females that they probably keep quiet.
But we males don't have to woory too much about them going out on their men.
ON the other hand, men talk about outings and sports heros, and events, and us men who are wanting to find friendship with men, can all to easily just hang out alone!
Ok, like your blog! Wish there were alot more lds men out there!
Dave
thanks for the information on this blog! I find it very interesting and entertaining! hopefully soon have updates that I love your post! I thank you too!
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I think you're forgetting that a lot of women (about 20 percent I've read) have problems with sexual desire and aren't necessarily attracted to their husbands sexually. Marriage also doesn't come with these deep emotional attachments, you have to work to make them so and rely a lot on the spirit, especially if you were emotionally abused as a kid. The spirit has to wake up a lot of these senses in you and a lot of it is faith when you get married, knowing it's going to be hard. Obviously, it's not the same at all as SSA but a lot of people are dealing with similar issues in marriage! I was talking with a general authority's wife who said she just wished she would one day be attracted to her husband! Life is just hard and you keep going forward knowing that the Lord will bless you and you keep yourself available to receive whatever blessings He'll give you.
ReplyDelete